What kinds of self-care do creative entrepreneurs really need? Jenni Kowal is the founder of Anytime Creative and creator of the Self-Care Adventure Cards that she successfully launched and fully funded on Kickstarter within the first 24 hours!
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You are listening to episode 197 of The Mindful Productivity Podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Steckler. And this week I am so excited to introduce you to the amazing Jenni Kowal. We talk all about self-care for creatives and entrepreneurs this week, and she also gives us a behind the scenes look at her successful Kickstarter campaign that she used to launch her Self Care Adventure Cards. I learned so much from Jenni during this conversation. I know you will too. So let's go ahead and dive in to this week's episode. Welcome to the Mindful Productivity Podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Steckler, and this is the place to be to live a more mindful and productive life. If you're ready to turn daily chaos into calm and start your days with intention, then get ready to join me. As we dive deep into mindful living and personal productivity. It's time to connect with your true self so you can live the life you want to live. And it all starts now. Before we jump into today's episode, I wanted to formally introduce you to our guest. Jenni Kowal is a multipassionate visual artist and personal development coach specializing in self-care and creative exploration. Founder of Anytime Creative, she offers a variety of life coaching services including mindfulness Support. Her flagship product is the Self Care Adventure Cards, an intuitive card deck that sparks inspiration for every step of your self care journey. Her mission is to help scattered and multi passionate creatives use self care to fuel their creative expression, get out of their own way, and spend more time in flow. I can't wait for you to hear this conversation, so let's go ahead and dive in. Jenni, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. I am so, so excited to talk to you. Thank you so much for having me. You're so welcome. Before we dive into all this goodness today, would you be willing to tell us a little bit about yourself and the work that you do in the world? Sure. So my name is Jenni Kowal. I'm a creative guide and founder of Anytime Creative. So basically, I try to help multi, passionate creatives burst through their creative blocks and stay kind of mindful insane through self care and mindfulness techniques. So overall, I'm a multi, passionate creative. I do graphic design, photography. We just bought the house, so there's a lot of activities to do here too. And just through my work, I just kind of want to be like that starting point to get grounded if you're feeling flustered and crazy about whatever creative project you're working on and really help you design your life around the ebbs and flows and making sure that you have everything you need inside of you first before you kind of sit out and create in the world. We need this so much. I love the emphasis on putting self care first, especially as a creative, because I feel like that kind of work that people do in the world sometimes can take different elements of self care that we don't always consider and think about. So I just love the work that you do. I'm a big fan of your card deck, which we'll talk about more later, too. I actually been using it every day, and I have two cards I pulled this morning, so thank you. That's always been really helpful. And also just Congratulations on your new house. How is unpacking going? Where are you with that? Right now? It's mostly together except for my office, so it's sort of a mess in here. But my parents just brought down a lot of hand me down furniture, and that really helped just fill the space and random rugs here and there just really make a big difference. So I think overall, the house is fine. I just have to actually sit in my office and do the harder work of organizing. And I've been avoiding that. I get that. I'm just so excited for you. It's such a fun time of year to have a new house, too, in the spring and everything's coming together. So thanks for all you share on Instagram. I'm like living vicariously through that. It's really fun. One of the things I wanted to talk about first was how a lot of creatives struggle. I mean, we all struggle with overwhelmed, but I feel like creative struggle with overwhelm just because of all of our creative ideas. And I don't know that we always know kind of like what the warning signs are of overwhelmed. Like, for me, I'm just all of a sudden hit with it like, oh my gosh, I'm overwhelmed. And I was wondering if maybe we could talk a little bit about how we can begin to maybe even define what overwhelm is, and then what are some of the ways that we can work to either maybe prevent it from making us feel stuck? Oh, I love that question. And I will say it's personal for everyone, so I can give some kind of blanket ideas and tips. But if you're struggling kind of on this sort of like I would say, seesaw some days you're feeling good, some days might be off and you don't have a lot of practices in place for maybe it's a morning routine or some sort of ritual that kind of keeps you grounded. I would definitely recommend having that in your toolbox. And some days you're going to feel great and do it, and then other days you're not going to want to do it. But until you realize that it might actually be helping you in the long term, just think about what those things are that really help you stay grounded. So for me, it's kind of journaling. Going for a walk every day doesn't happen every day, but I can tell when I start to stop the exercising and the self expression is when I start to get more flustered and anxious. So I would say start with a baseline that you can kind of continue to manage, like create habits that are going to support you. And when you start to get into other parts of your life that might be really crazy, like buying a house or starting a new job, even traveling can be very jarring. So think about the things that really support you and that it's the bare minimum. And what I've noticed is that some days you're going to need a lot more self care, so you're going to really need to step back and go inward versus other days where you're like, oh, yeah, I'm a social butterfly. I can do Instagram all day TikTok and really be social. And then the next day you're, like, burnt out from it. So you kind of notice those things that, yeah, maybe one day you're feeling great, but it might have been like a little bit too far into your edges. So start to, like, maybe over a week, see how you feel and these kind of ups and downs. And if you're getting to a point where you're in, like, severe burnout, it's going to be really, really hard to do anything. Like I will say, like, kind of like you just drop everything and you feel you might feel bad about it, but just know that you are learning how to get more maintenance than your life so that you don't get there. And some specific examples would be with traveling. It's like you're getting out of your routine completely and you could come back and you're like, I need a whole other vacation now because I'm really tired. So maybe there's a day on that trip that you just do nothing and you go hang out by your campsite. That's what I do. I'm like, let's just stay here today instead of going to explore. So our brain is processing so much every day, and when you kind of break that monotony, it could be difficult, especially if you're highly sensitive, to feel those normal things that you feel when you're in your routine. So I would just recommend having the routine and making it portable and making kind of, like, plans for yourself when bigger things are happening. So for moving for me, I just kind of pushed off a lot of calls made as much time for myself as possible, and I'm still recovering, but at least I know why it's happening too. These are great, and I really love too, how you kind of the segue I'm really hearing too, is that overwhelming can stem from kind of over stimuli, but also when a lot of our internal needs aren't meant or when we have a lot of stimuli in our lives that maybe we're not really aware of. Because I know for me, just like you get into the groove, like the daily things that you're doing, and then maybe something else gets thrown at you and you kind of just keep going without really taking a pause to be like, what's happening in my life? What are my surroundings? How does my body feel? What might start feeling overwhelming? And I think too, what I'm hearing is I love this idea of really kind of like setting up camp at home and being like, okay, instead of taking more time to introduce new stimuli, even though that might be fun. What if I took time to really kind of, like, hunker down and sit with myself, my thoughts and all these experiences I'm going through? And I think that's something that can be hard sometimes because I know sometimes for me when I do start to feel that overwhelm, I want to escape. Like, I'm always like, oh, maybe I'll just go get an Airbnb somewhere and that will solve all my problems when really it's like, maybe I do need to kind of hunker down and take a look at what's going on at Homebase, so to speak. Yeah, absolutely. And that's where I would also say, like, you kind of have zones in your house, so if you have an office with the door, maybe you just don't go in there all weekend and try to recharge somewhere else. Or I used to live in a studio apartment and I would just have, like, my corner for my yoga and my meditations and really creating that physical pathway in your mind where you're setting aside time for yourself to recharge. Just like your phone has a charging station. Like, what is your charging station? And how can you make a routine to get there? And then iPhones have a great focus feature now where you can kind of turn off notifications for certain activities that you're doing so you can still let text messages come through just in case, but turn off the other noise and take time to recharge. And then also ask yourself, like, what really needs to happen? Like, you know, we have this to do list that never ends, but at the end of the day, it's like you just want and need to be taken care of you so that the important stuff can get done. A charging station at home for yourself. That's brilliant. I really love that even just having it's almost kind of like an adult time out, but in a good way. Let's go chill out in this corner. And yeah, I love that so much. And I think too, this is where all the lovely prompts that you've put together and all the cards that you've created inside of your self care adventure deck really come into play. And I'll just share personally that I've really been enjoying the card deck because sometimes I know that I need daily. I know that I need something for myself, my mind, my body, whatever. And having just a simple card that I can pull and be like, Bella, have you considered this? Right. One of the ones I pulled two today. And one of the ones I had was deep clean a part of your home. And I was thinking about not only how that absolutely needs to happen, but also what that would give me, right. If I took time to actually really deep clean my bathroom, for example, what are all the things that that would give me? Not only would it be clean, but it would give me peace of mind. It would help me feel better. It's amazing how when you walk into a room and you're not happy with it, how that kind of just, like, digs at you a little bit each time and can create little micro stress. So I really enjoyed that. And I just wanted to share that one prompt that I found today. But I would love to talk more about kind of like, creative capacity and what led you to creating the self care adventure cards? What kind of like, ignited the inspiration for you? And how did you decide, okay, I'm going to create these? So I love to tell the story because I will say I was never like, quote, unquote good at self care. It was not something I thought about. And I always really associated with just like, bubble baths and really fancy skin serums, not things that I was doing often. And I took a road trip in 2018, and I was by myself for most of the time or visiting friends or family on the way. It's a great free place to stop. But in those times where I was resetting every day, like, reconnecting with people I haven't seen in years, and I'm an introvert. So it was really hard for me to do that kind of constantly. So when I was by myself, I found my time just, like, really just sinking into Netflix and not really doing things for myself to recharge in a proper way that felt supportive. So during this whole trip, it was very, very energetically draining. And when I got back, I just was like, okay, this is a sign. I really want to get my own apartment. I was living with my parents in an interim, and I was like, let me just move on, get my own place, have my own space. And once I got my own space, that's when I realized, okay, I create my self care corner in my studio apartment. And having that time for myself for the first time ever was like, okay, I get it. Self care is the key here to maintaining every part of my life. So that road trip really helped change my vision about what self care meant. And then a couple of years later, in 2020, I had the idea for the cards because I didn't want it to do list. I just wanted to have a nice little card, tell me what to do, rather than like, I love to do list. Everyone loves to do list, but it's when it's coming down to self care. I didn't want to feel like a chore. So when I created the card deck, I was like, this could be really helpful for other people. So I started to design it and create more prompts that were kind of universal. I had a few prompts that I was like, maybe not everyone would enjoy, but I thought about how can I make this deck really expansive? And that's when I started to create more prompts, and I went ahead and doing a Kickstarter with it so I could actually do a bigger print run instead of, like, DIYing it. I guess. This is so exciting, and we're going to talk a little bit more about kind of this whole process, too. But I heard you say self-care corner. Can you tell us about that, like, what you have in that area? I'm so curious. Yeah. For me, it definitely handles lots of my Oracle cards. I love pulling, like, all random Oracle cards and seeing how they connect. And crystals incense. I have one of those little seat pads. It's not a meditation pad, but it's just like a nice little thing. You can sit on the floor, and my journals live there, too, so just a place like we were talking about before to go and recharge and having myself care. Cards also come with a little wood block. And the wood block says, I am enough. So you can pull a card and put it in the wood block. And then every time you do something, you can kind of see it sitting there or you can pull it for later on in the day. It's just a good reminder to have to keep with you. I love this so much, and I definitely am trying to make something similar. I currently have a standing sitting desk in part of my office that looks out into all these trees we have, and it's currently overrun. It's kind of like the junk area right now in my office, everything has just been thrown on top of it. But I keep thinking, like, you should really keep this place clear and have your journals available to you, because I know for me, one of the best things about kind of self-care and grounding is creating a regular Journal practice. And I know you've talked about that, too. So you've kind of just given me some inspiration to really kind of honor that space and maybe protect it from myself. I can't put stuff on the desk, so I really love that idea. Yeah, I love the term recharge station, but also I love natural parks and stuff like that. So I think of the rest stop, the pit stop where you go to refill your water and just really have an enjoyable space for you. And then I think you can kind of, like, see how you feel when you're in it. And if you feel like you deserve that space, because that's another thing. It's like do I deserve self care right now? But the more you make it your routine, you're just going to love it and you can decorate it however you want. This is really fun. I think you should start like a little hashtag self-care corner or something so people can share their spaces. That would be really cool. What inspires them. I know I'm like going on and out about it, but I really love your card deck so much. And I've been wanting it for a long time. And I kept forgetting. And I finally ordered it and I got it in the mail and was so blown away by not only all the prompts you have, but just like the box and the little magnet. And then you have the card block and there's this beautiful cloth. I think it's like a river that you can put the cards down on. And I just really have enjoyed it so much. And I know that so many people, I've had a lot of different entrepreneur friends talk about, oh, I'd love to make a physical product or I'd love to make a card deck. And I would love to know, could you tell us a little bit about how you kind of even got started with like, okay, I have this idea, but where do I even begin? Maybe what's something that you would suggest for other people that are kind of looking into creating a physical product, whereas some things that they could consider or look into. Yeah. So for me, I knew card decks weren't hard to make, but I didn't know how. So, I mean, Firstly, I just started with putting them on index cards and writing all the prompts out and seeing how it felt in my hands. So to start with that prototype process, and then I ordered samples on makeplayingcards.com which you can get like short run prints just to see them and get them in your hands right away. But I sent out five of the decks to friends to help use them and give me feedback. And then from that feedback, I created another iteration of the deck, which was a little bit more refined because I decided to include the five areas of self care. So they are revitalized, nourish express connect and reflect. And it kind of makes it fun. Like, each card is color coded to the area of self care. So if you're like, oh, I just need like that. I need to connect today. What is that going to be? Oh, I pulled the blue card with the little moon in the corner that's connect. So gamifying it in this way was another, different way to approach the deck too. So that has all been evolving. And I knew that I wanted to make it like a bigger print run. And I wanted to do the Kickstarter to raise the funding. But I had a team help me. And the team is called Product Refinery, and they do exactly what they're called. They help you kind of get your idea into production and then help you market it. And they can also help ship it, too. So having a team helped me really refine the marketing, refine the use of the deck, having like, I don't know, that like, Splash really helped me because otherwise I don't think I would have done that by myself because I would have just been like, okay, here's my project. Guys like, here you go. But they really motivated me to do this whole launch period. And I think that's what has made it so successful. And having any type of consultant with you on your product is going to help you see it through a different lens that you might have been kind of siloed in, and then having others either prototype it and help you with the use cases of it, that's going to help, too. So don't let it be a secret for that long. Like, at least tell your inner circle so they can help you. This is such a good point, and I really like to just talking a little bit about the development of it and how it's so much more than simply prompts on a card and how you have all these little logos on it and the different areas. The other card I chose today was enjoyment, reflection, and it has four different questions. And one of them is what brought me joy this week. And I really find that helpful, too, that you can kind of just open it up and be like, okay, which area might I want to kind of focus on? And so it sounds like too. I mean, I know that you put so much effort into it, so it wasn't just making a bunch of prompts and then throwing them onto cards. It was how does it all go together from the individual card to the whole scale of the project? And it sounds like taking time to really sit with that and develop it, and then working with his team in terms of marketing really helps you cover all those bases. And I think that's such a nice reminder because as creatives as entrepreneurs, it can be really tempting to want to do everything ourselves, or it can be hard to ask for help or to invest in help. So I really love hearing the story of how that all came together for you. Could you tell us a little bit more about maybe your experience with Kickstarter? I know it's really overwhelming for a lot of people. It's definitely something I've never done. Was this your first time working with Kickstarter? What were some of your maybe biggest lessons or challenges kind of going through that process? Yeah. So it was actually my third Kickstarter. I did two back in College about ten years ago for some random projects that I raised money to go to Europe and take pictures and make a photo book. And I also raised money for my senior thesis, which was a photography show. So I had experience with the platform, but it has changed a lot in the last decade. So I would just see it as another tool for your marketing. That kind of like Etsy, where you can get, like, a whole database of people searching stuff. If you were just to market it on your own website, you would have to drive a lot of traffic to it. So the benefit of Kickstarter is that there's already people on there searching projects. They're getting emails for it. There's this whole ecosystem. So that was why I chose Kickstarter, because I just wanted to make it kind of this fun campaign, and they have everything that you need in there to do that. And the hardest part was probably just the pre marketing, which was where I had to continue to share and show the behind the scenes and the development and just consistently make this project known. So that when I did go live, people were like, ready to buy. So it was like a no brainer. And then we also had to make a video, which I always recommend making a video to help people get to know you and the product. It's not just about the product because you're creating connections there too. So definitely have a video and really just think about the story that you're telling. Like, how is this going to impact your consumer? It's not just about you, but with everything that we make, we're going to try to make some sort of difference. So with this deck, I was just like, how can I help people make self care a little bit easier so they don't have to think so much about it? So whatever that is for you, think about that. And Kickstarter has a ton of resources of how to set up a campaign. You can look at all these other successful campaigns and see how they did. You can have stretch goals. So for me, I had a stretch goal, which was like, if we reach, I don't know, the numbers, like, five K of funding, we can add in ten more cards. So I was like, yes, we're going to reach that. And then I think the next stretch goal was like, BOOKMARKS. And instead of making a Journal, I just made BOOKMARKS that you could keep in your Journal with a bunch of reflection questions. So I had all these ideas for what the deck could be, and I really wanted them to fit into one box. Like, I wanted this, like, self care kit so that you could carry it around with you everywhere. Or if you just wanted to keep the cards, you could wrap it in the cloth, which you're right. It's like a topographic pattern to match the adventure theme. And that cloth can be used as, like, a place to put your cards down, make it secret, put that in your self care corner. Or you could just use it as a dog bandana, as someone has sent me a picture of doing that. So there's lots of things you can do. And with Kickstarter, those rewards are important. So if you're making a movie, people often do T shirts and stickers and stuff like that to get people inspired to share it. Or if you're making a card deck, what are those add ons that you can put in there? Like, maybe one of those higher tiers is like a personal reading with them, like doing a live Zoom session with somebody so you can kind of do whatever you want. But for me, I just sold more decks at different price ranges. Like, the more you bought, the more you would save kind of idea. And when the decks went live, the price went up on my website. So everyone was getting, like a cheaper price by doing the Kickstarter, too. These are such great strategies. And I totally checked out your Kickstarter page, by the way. It's amazing. And I loved your video and how you're in nature and just like, the whole theme of the whole self care adventure cards. I just love how it's all pulled together. And I think that's really inspiring too, is like, what's the inspiration for a product that someone might be creating and how you can pull in these elements from something else. And so it's definitely got that kind of like outdoor National Park kind of nature feel. And I really, really love that so much. Thank you. So one of my next questions is in line with this. What are some of your biggest self care strategies or practices that you use for yourself while going through a big launch like this? I'm trying to think, and I wish I could say that I was like a master at self care because that's all I was thinking about and talking about. But really it was just hard because there were so many moving pieces that I was overwhelmed. And having a team help me was the number one thing to help me stay grounded. So that to me was self care. Like, they helped me. They could answer my questions anytime of day within boundaries. And I had my boyfriend here just trying to help me come up with prompts, and he, like, helped me so much with the video and everything. Like, having that community care was so important. So, like I said before, you don't have to do it alone, like, bring in your inner circle or hire somebody to help you. And when the actual Kickstarter went live, the best advice I got was there's only so much you can do. You can send every email in the world, post as many photos on your Instagrams and socials. But at the end of the day, you just have to rest and receive. So I went live. I did all my marketing for the day, and then I just took a bath and it was like, wow, I could actually do this. It doesn't have to be this constant thing. And when the Kickstarter ran, I think I did 28 days around that time frame. So basically the first couple of days are a lot of like, okay, this is live. People are getting to know about it. They're going to back it right away. I got fully funded within 24 hours, which is amazing. And then the next couple of weeks get kind of quiet because everyone's like that, you know, has heard about it. So I was getting a lot more random people from Kickstarter purchasing it. And a lot of people you can drop out on Kickstarter too. You can basically pledge something and decide a day later you don't want to go through with it. So I was like losing a couple of sales and I was like, oh darn. So I tried not to take that to heart. And then at the end I just gave it my all and I knew that it wasn't over. It was basically just the beginning that once the funding came through, I would be able to sell these in my own shop and sell it as wholesale opportunities too. So it was a really big learning opportunity for me and just maintaining the vision. But being realistic and knowing my limits is like, I don't have a whole marketing team. So the fact I did have help, but I wasn't doing Facebook ads. I wasn't doing anything else but like real guerrilla marketing. So know your limits, but make it fun too. Like, I did a Facebook group where we did a three day challenge for self care and it was like Build your self care roadmap. And it was all themed. And then I gave away one of the decks to one of the winners in that group. And a lot of those people became advocates for the cards too. So again, community helping you build this thing. I would say plan as much in advance as you can and then just like leave room for feeling really tired or feeling really drained because it is a very creative time and it can be very draining. Support and structure as self care. That is so huge and really love the reminder too, that you can only do so much and especially with launching, whether it's a podcast or product or service or a website. I think that that's one of the biggest lessons is preparing things ahead of time because I know I've definitely been in the middle of launches before and like you said, there's always that kind of middle period where things slow down and then there's always people that buy at the very last second and it can feel tempting in that middle phase to be like, okay, well, maybe I should just go live every day on Instagram, or maybe I should send another really email and that energy kind of comes off too. I feel like. And so it's really just being like, what am I going to do? What's the most that I'm going to do? And just stick to that? And like you said, really give yourself space for rest because it really is exhausting. It's a whole roller coaster. And I can only imagine running a public Kickstarter campaign how that would feel, too. So these are just such really great tips, and I appreciate you sharing all of that. And you kind of already answered the next question I was going to ask, but I don't know if maybe there's something else. And that was there, like a big mindset shift that you had maybe after starting the Kickstarter campaign or after the fact. Was there something that you realized? I think in the months afterwards, it made me realize that this deck was like my book, like my publishing a book becoming some sort of name in the industry. And I was getting people contacting me that I never met before and people talking about it and sharing it. And I was like, wow, this is actually the kickoff for my brand. Like, I didn't realize it at the time. And I was like, okay, wait, people are asking me about doing some sort of presentations about this or talking about self care in a bigger way. And my brand kind of became about self care for the longest time. And I was like, wow, this is what I want to be talking about. And all I needed to do was create a product that could coexist with my words and teachings. So now that it's been a year and a half since I launched almost two years, I really want to dive more back into creativity as far as helping people with that, too. But self care was always, like, the beginning for it. So I'm really glad I did it this way and that. I got to create one product that was beyond me, bigger than me. And then my next products are just going to fit so nicely into the suite of adventure and creativity. Yes. And I think, too, it's really inspiring to hear that you can kind of create what you want to be known for and how a physical product can kind of be the culmination or the manifestation of an idea or a niche. And I know that's what I love doing with journals and planners, too. And so it's just really inspiring to hear, not only have you created something that's so helpful and useful for so many people, but it's also kind of like the introduction to you and your brand and maybe some of the very first people that get to know about you will buy it and then eventually go on to follow your customer journey, follow that customer journey and invest in other things you create. So it's just this really lovely invitation into your brand. In the same way I would love to know, too, what is your process like for kind of continuing to market your cards now that the Kickstarter hype is over? I know sometimes you do. Like, you did a moving kind of deal or sale for the cards when you got your house. What are some of the other ways that you kind of continue to make people aware of these card decks? Yeah, I wish I was better at marketing. It could be very hard for me. So at the beginning, there was a lot of hype and more people were buying it just because the Kickstarter had ended and they could presale out on my website and all that. And then there was kind of like a lull where I was like, what is this? What is happening? I wasn't as connected with the deck for some reason because I felt I wouldn't say like a fraud, but I was just like, how did I do this? How did this even happen? And now I have a bunch of decks to sell, and it got kind of overwhelming. And then only in the past couple of months have I really just owned it. So I just want to share that part of my process is like, yes, I made something bigger than myself, but I had to kind of deal with that and come to terms with this kind of I can't even put it into words, but just something where I was like, Is this good enough or am I enough? Which it literally says I am enough on the box. So it really did help to get the kind words from everyone that's using them to be like, okay, yeah, I am legitimate. I do have a seat at the table. So now my outreach is really just going on podcasts like this and sharing the story and just using Pinterest is like starting to post more content marketing blogs, trying to figure that out. Like, it's a whole process. And yeah, I did the moving sale, so that was like a great way for people who had wanted to get it or wanted to buy a gift for somebody. Like another great thing to do. I just don't want to rely on sales to make sales, basically. So really it's just been part of my whole marketing suite, which is talking about creative coaching and creating programs that have, like, they're not centered around the deck, but there's language that the deck has helped build. So more just making it part of my brand and talking about it as if I had written a book that has helped me a lot, and I'm dabbling with some Facebook ads. So we'll see. But overall, podcasts and summits and really just trying to be visible as a personal brand is my strategy at this moment. And I think that's a great one. And I think it's really people feel connected when they know kind of the story behind a product. And I know that I have so many like journals or books or whatever from different entrepreneurs that have created them. And it's so cool to know this is why they created it or this is how this came to life and also just really want to reflect on that experience of, okay, I did this really cool thing and it's out in the world. But then that really common feeling, I think of, oh my gosh, it's out in the world. And now people could also judge it or who am I? Like, how did I do this? And I definitely have that feeling when I had my book launched and when I published Planners, even now, there's definitely still those moments of, oh, wait, I did that. Like, who am I? And there's almost like a little period of time after the launch of something where it's like I almost don't want to talk about it at all. Like, don't look at it, nobody knows. And I just think that's really common. So I think that's something everyone has to work through. And I just appreciate you sharing all of that too. Yeah. It's hard to be like an artist might feel that with their painting, but it's like you make it for you, but then it goes out into the world and then it's not yours at all anymore. But we're still kind of like, I don't know, the gatekeeper or the babysitter of it. And it's like you still want to make sure it's like the best it can be, but it doesn't have to be your whole world either. And that's why I want to make more products that really pair well with it. I just haven't had the capacity to do that lately. Yeah. And I would love to know too, as someone that focuses around self care, how do you see self care specifically for creative or entrepreneurs evolving over the next few years? Do you think there might be things that more people get into? Have you given that any thought in terms of maybe like, how that might evolve for you? Yeah, I think it's happening. And I think with the past two years being stuck in a pandemic and having this great resignation with people leaving their work or really just requiring these different standards of work from home and how even one day work from home can change you and have that capacity. So you're not like using up your weekend just for chores. So I really think with entrepreneurs specifically, it's like I never want to work a 40 hours work week that is not for me. And how can I take care of myself? So that really it just turns into like, I've had a great morning. I can get everything I need to get done very quickly or not quickly, but just in a condensed timeline versus feeling like I have to sit there at a desk for 40 hours trying to make something happen that could have taken me like 2 hours. So I think when more people are realizing that they have value working from home, creating those self care corners and having boundaries, that is where I think the world will just become like just the different places, different from where the 40 hours work week was created, which was a very man centric thing. When you still had a wife at home, it's changed completely. So self care can really be that key to shift people's mindsets in how they work, how they show up, how they are in their relationships. And overall I think the content that I'm seeing being created is it's not about here's how to find 100 new clients today. It's like here's how to become the person that creates the things to help the clients. It's a very more soft feminine flow versus like this, I don't know, bro marketing lifestyle. So I can see it happening. And I think the more we can share that it's possible to stay balanced and still work and run your own business, then I think more people will do it and it will be better for them in the long run. I think we could have a whole other podcast episode specifically talking about shortening like the work week and all that. And I know it's something I'm also experimenting with in my business too. It's like moving towards really making more of a four day work week. And I know for me it's wild sometimes when I'm my most productive, it's usually when I'm not working like maybe even 30 hours a week. It's when I'm taking time to work, when I want to, when my creative brain is on, and that's when I can create curriculum, create content, do marketing that feels really good. And then that other time is going on walks with my Bulldog or taking a nap and I find that I'm actually so much more productive doing those things. But I still struggle with the mindset of you're not working hard enough or you shouldn't be taking naps, you're too lucky to be doing this, who are you? And so I think that yes, it's not only creating that time but also realizing that it can take a while to get out of that mindset because it was so ingrained in me and all of us to sit in that chair nine to five. Even if you're not being productive, you better be at your desk. Yeah, I would love to do some sort of workshop about getting out of that nine to five mindset because I still struggle with that too. It's like I got to be up by nine and I'm like, Why? Like who's forcing me unless I have a meeting which I don't normally take calls before 11:00 a.m.. So it's like the more you'll set those boundaries for yourself, I think other people will see that and then it'll make this ripple effect and that's what I like to see. It's that change. And I literally just took a bath before this podcast. So if that's, like, anyone wants to do that and be crazy, like, you can. And what I needed was just to feel grounded because this past couple of days, I've just been exhausted. And I was like, I'm literally not getting anything done anyway. It's just like sitting and staring or clicking around. So why don't I just take a bath? And then now I feel wonderful. So just like, note those moments where you took time for yourself and it worked. And then you can really start to kind of build that strength in yourself to be like, yes, I can do this, and I deserve this. And it's going to help me so much. That's such a great reminder. I know. It's actually funny you say that because I remember the first time when I was working from home after I moved across the country one morning, I didn't have to start work until like, ten. And I decided to take a bath in the morning, like, on a weekday. And it was so funny because I was like, I'd always thought for some reason, like, baths are for the weekend. And I was like, why not do it right now on a Monday? And it really made my day so much better. So I think it's also fun to look at all these rules that we've created subconsciously about things. But Jenni, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. I feel like we talked about so much and I learned so much from you and I feel so inspired. I would love for you to share where people can find you online. Well, thank you so much for having me. This was wonderful. And yeah, my website is anytimecreative.com and I'm on Instagram and TikTok@AnytimeCreative, so it's the same across the board and you can find my cards on there. And I also have a free 30 days of journaling, like email prompt. If you want to sign up for that. You just get like an email a day with a Journal prompt. So if you're struggling in that regard, I've got you. And yeah, I'm just trying to share, like, helpful things over on my Instagram that kind of can help give you those minds that shift into building the self care that you deserve. Wonderful. We will definitely have all of that linked in the Show notes. Again, thank you so much for being here. I'm very excited for everyone to hear this. And yeah, thanks so much for sharing all of your creativity and self care wisdom. It's much appreciated. Thank you. Have a wonderful day. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of the Mindful Mindful Productivity Podcast. Always you can find more resources over Mindful Productivity Podcast, along with all of the links mentioned in today's Show Notes. Make sure to go follow Jenni on Instagram. And if you feel so inclined to check out her self care adventure cards. They are definitely something that I cherish and love it's and have been using weekly ever since I got them see you back here on next Monday. I hope you have a lovely week ahead.